[vincentvalentine]

From http://www.guardian....-1-3-the-future

"Evolution never stops. As the World Cup showed, 4‑2‑3‑1 has come to replace 4‑4‑2 as the universal default (18 of the 32 teams played some form of 4‑2‑3‑1 at some stage, with another three fielding a 4‑4‑2 that perhaps should have become 4‑2‑3‑1) so the system at the very highest level has already begun to mutate. Spain, by the end of the World Cup, had followed what Barcelona did at times last season, what Arsenal seemed to be reaching towards, and set up in a 4‑2‑1‑3.

Now clearly the distinction between 4‑2‑3‑1 and 4‑2‑1‑3 is minimal. It entails nothing more than the central player in the trident pulling a little deeper and the two wide players advancing slightly. In practice, as the wide players look to escape the attentions of full-backs, their depth of position may not alter greatly, but to refer to the system as 4‑2‑1‑2‑1 and start introducing a fifth band is probably to begin to confuse the simplicity that gives value to the practice of assigning numerical codes. The shape, if anything, resembles a diamond sitting on a plinth. As I've said before, the designations are of course crude, but they have a use in providing a broad explicatory template.
The key differences in the formations

Yet it is significant if that central creator plays deeper, for a whole number of reasons. To begin with, if the playmaker operates close to the holding pair, the team cannot be "broken" into attacking and defensive sections as Holland and Argentina were at the World Cup (which is an advantage for those sides that believe in a possession-based approach). By definition, by being only a short pass away from the creator, the two midfield holders are more involved in the attacking aspect and at least one of them can be encouraged to press forwards at times, as Xabi Alonso did for Spain, and as Seydou Keita does for Barcelona. So immediately the range of attacking options is increased.

There is also an impact on the creator himself. Playing a touch deeper offers him three advantages. He is nearer the two holding players, who can be considered his protectors, which makes it harder physically to intimidate him, while his more withdrawn position means he is farther from the opposing holding midfielders, harder to pick up and thus likely to have more time on the ball (not that Xavi or Cesc Fábregas really needs more time on the ball; one of the joys of watching Spain or Barcelona recently, or Holland or West Germany of the 70s, is their willingness to give the ball to a man under pressure, trusting his technique to release it and change the angle of attack).

The creator is also more likely to receive the ball facing goal – or at least to have time to turn so he is facing goal – with three team-mates ahead of him (as opposed to one ahead and two alongside) and the potential of others breaking from deep, and so he becomes something more like an old-fashioned playmaker than a second striker who tends to receive the ball with his back to goal. That, in theory, should make the transfer of ball from back to front quicker and thus make a side more penetrative."

Now reading from an unlike source wikipedia it says;
"The somewhat unconventional 4–2–1–3 formation was developed by José Mourinho during his time at Inter Milan including in the 2010 UEFA Champions League Final. By using captain Javier Zanetti and Esteban Cambiasso in holding midfield positions, he was able to push more players to attack. Wesley Sneijder filled the Trequartista role and the front three operated as three strikers, rather than having a striker and one player on each wing. Using this formation, Mourinho won The Treble with Inter in only his second season in charge of the club. Currently, under Mano Menezes management, the Brazil national football team uses this formation.

As the system becomes more developed and flexible, small groups can be identified to work together in more efficient ways by giving them more specific and different roles within the same lines, and numbers like 4-2-1-3, 4-1-2-3 and even 4-2-2-2 occur."

I heard teams such Arsenal, Man City, Spain the question is the 4-2-1-3 really the future of football and can it work on FM 12

Straight away there are 2 variants of the 4-2-1-3

Mourinho version


Arsenal/Spain version

I wont be telling people how to set it role by role because to me thats a personal thing. One thing I did notice it is versatile. If your a Proactive and like to plan ahead youshould be able tweak it to expose oppositions weakness without effecting familiarity.

[Maverick]

Not read this in full yet, just cheated and scrolled down to the screenshots of formations, and this is where i find it interesting and be surprised if anyone will play with 3 central strikers without the roles changing the system to something similar to a 451 of some sort.

[Xulu]

Well, there are a few things to note here.

The first is the rise of the 4-2-3-1. When 4-2-3-1 matches 4-2-3-1, the AMC is often marked out of the game by the opposition MC/DMC pair. If you wish for your playmaker to be advanced to support the front three, how can he do it when he is marked out of the game? While not a 4-2-1-3, Spurs sometimes have this issue now in their 4-4-1-1. Van der Vaart (more an AMC than ST) is a creative mastermind and can work magic against many sides but against twin markers he often is static and lifeless; thus the more robust directness of Defoe (more a ST than AMC) is preferred in those scenarios.

The second is relation to the 4-3-3. In the traditional 4-3-3 the central midfielder is the destroyer who anchors the other two MCs, who are then free to roam and create while punishing the hole. An inverted 4-3-3 places the playmaker in the center and uses the destroyers flanking him. Such a playmaker is a deep-lying playmaker, and the tenacity of the destroyers allows the playmaker to roam a little. It is very possible that the 4-3-3 DLP variant can be made into the 4-2-3-1/4-2-1-3 with just a simple push forward by the creator.

The wide players in this system are more akin to 4-3-3 wide players than 4-2-3-1 wide players as they will have to remain wider for longer. The striker will also play a different role, as in 4-2-3-1 he can remain more centralized where as in a 4-3-3 he will have to drop deeper to assist the midfield (which frees the wide attackers in central space).

Is 4-2-1-3 the future? It is hard to say. 4-6-0 was touted as the future not too long ago, and it has not quite reached that pinnacle. The hardest positions to fill will be that of STC and MC/AMC. The ST will need to be comfortable as a 4-2-3-1 spearhead and a 4-3-3 space creator. The MC/AMC will need to naturally sit deep and break forward instead of coming deep to collect the ball, and that requires a special sort of mentality in order to play the position correctly.

[vincentvalentine]

I have used the Spain version (4-2-1-2-1)on FM11 it was good keeping possession but not good in attacking but good enough for a tournament like the world cup just take the 1-0 and move on. I have tried the Mourinho with my current Chelsea (4-2-1-3) with two DM's and AMC with 3 central strikers. How to set 3 strikers was always a puzzle.

[Maverick]

Images no longer work, but be interested in how people line up with this, and the roles they use.

[vincentvalentine]

Mourinho Version

read a little bit more about apparently the flank forwards man marked the fullbacks so off the ball it would look like a 4-2-3-1 some tactic site show the formation in the defensive phase



Spain version

[Xulu]

Maverick, on 08 December 2011 - 06:47 PM, said:

Images no longer work, but be interested in how people line up with this, and the roles they use.

That very much depends on who you have and how you want to play.

If you go by Wilson's analysis, the 1 is the creator and the 2 are a destroyer pair. That is all well and good, but how much should either move? Is your playmaker a DLP with a pair of Anchors/DMs behind him? Or is he an ADP with a pair of Ball-Winners/CMs behind him?

Second, what do you have in the front three? Wide men? A triumvirate of STs? How do their abilities mesh? To an extent, that will dictate your DL/DR as the three STs will need more wide support than the wide three.

Third, do you want to Counter? Control? Attack? Something else? Who are you playing against? How will your playmaker need to react in order to flourish against your opposition?

[vincentvalentine]

I have the players in my Chelsea squad to play Mourinho version I could have Mata as Trequartista playing behind a flat 3 of Torres, Hulk and according to my Assistant Di Maria (my best forward) now going off my coaches the front 3 roles would be:

Torres - TQ
Hulk - Poacher
Di Maria - Advanced fwd

Now I dont think that would work I was thinking STCR & STCL Advance Fwd (both marking the fulllbacks) with the STC as a Poacher could work. The holders would be for me two DM's one rather an anchor or defensive mid depending on opposition (If they play AMC I play anchor). For the defence I would have again personally a Ball playing CB partnered with a normal CB with two Wingbacks on Support hugging the touchline to give width.

[Jaam]

This is how I've been playing it.

Spoiler

This is my Port Vale team in 2016 with most of the team being regens. It relies heavily on the ability of my box2box and the speed and stamina of my full backs. I've tried playing them as wing backs but that hasn't worked out too well.

[Maverick]

Interesting idea, i have just started with this in my Monaco save, updates later.

[vincentvalentine]

Maverick, on 09 December 2011 - 03:18 PM, said:

Interesting idea, i have just started with this in my Monaco save, updates later.

Which version you going for Spain or Mouriho?

[Maverick]

I started off with the spain version,but then have changed it with the mourinho one but with a difference, by using 3 amc instead of the wide players.

[Jaam]

As its been working so well for my Port Vale team I decided to also try the other variation with my England team. Depending on the players available and the choice, I sometimes switch the wingers to inside forwards. Both roles have wide play set as cutting inside and cross from byline.

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[vincentvalentine]

Struggling with the Mourinho version of the tactic my assistant manager keeps saying "Our midfield is being outnumbered by the opposition midfield." Now both times I used this formation was in carling cup against weaker opposition playing a flat 4-4-2, both times I struggled to keep the ball