CONTEMPORARY: Barcelona 2008-2010

[Millie]

Barcelona 2008-2010
Manager: Josep Guardiola
Club: FC Barcelona
Country: Spain
Modern Notation: 4-3-3
Era: Contemporary
Honours: La Liga, Champions League
Contributor: Millie

Continuing on from Rijkaard’s 4-3-3, Josep Guardiola won the Champions League in his first season as coach of Barcelona with a very attacking tactic based around the skills of some of the most exciting and technically gifted players on the planet.

The 4-3-3 utilises Henry and Messi as wide forwards who then come inside to cause problems for the defence. Xavi and Iniesta use their supreme passing abilities to fashion chances for the forwards, while the goal scoring skills of Eto’o and lately Ibrahimovic mean that the team can score almost at will. Support is also given by the attacking wing backs, while the defensive midfielder and centre backs hold the fort should any counter-attacks come their way.

Defensively, the formation can be found wanting, especially with squads who do not possess excellent defenders or technically gifted players with vision in the centre of the midfield to really make it work. But it gives so much creative licence to the front three that the goals conceded can be more than made up by the amount of goals scored.

Victor Valdes �ric Abidal Carles Puyol Gerard Piqu� Daniel Alves Yaya Tour� Xavi Andr�s Iniesta Thierry Henry Samuel Eto’o/Zlatan Ibrahimović Lionel Messi

Sweeper Keeper Wing Back Centre Back Centre Back Wing Back Defensive Midfielder Advanced Playmaker Advanced Playmaker Inside Forward Complete Forward Inside Forward

Defend Automatic Defend Defend Automatic Defend Support Support Attack Attack Attack

Philosophy Passing Creative Freedom Closing Down Tackling Marking Crossing Roaming

Fluid Shorter More Expressive Press More Default Default Default More Roaming

[trian]

Iniesta is LMC, Xavi is RMC. And I'm not sure that their roles are similar. I think Xavi almost always playing deeper than Iniesta. His zone of max activity is around central circle. While Iniesta is much more tend to roam around the field, especially on left flank.

Of course it's only my opinion.

[cagiva]

There is no "certain" way ,in that Guardiola ( or before him Rijkaard) placed Xavi and Iniesta - it's more about certain match situation.
May be you are right about the specific role of Xavi and Iniesta (  about their movement with and without the ball) ,but personally I watch many Barca's matches last year in which in certain match situation Xavi was spearheding his team.
I think Iniesta possess more natural attacking mind than Xavi ,and that's why he places himself more attacking than Xavi. But that doesn't mean that the coach gives them different tactical instructions.

[Millie]

I'm sure you guys watch more La Liga than I do (still don't have satelite TV, but hoping to rectify that next season). Keep the discussion going, lads. Once we have some more opinions on these formations, we can look to do full-scale revisions and get them up on the main site.

[moj]

There's an interesting article in The Guardian about Barcelona's system last year and their use of "false nines" and how it tricked so many defences. Basically Messi and Eto'o often switched positions, so the FC became a deep-playing striker, while the right winger moved up the field (higher mentality), certainly think in some matches Ibrahimovic's role isn't going to be Complete Forward, he'll be told to drop back to confuse the other team.

Always thought Dani Alves (RB) had more freedom than the (LB) Abidal, but that could be because of their natural talents, respectively.

[trian]

There is no "certain" way ,in that Guardiola ( or before him Rijkaard) placed Xavi and Iniesta - it's more about certain match situation.

All football is about certain situations. But it doesn't prevent us from speaking about overall tactics. )

May be you are right about the specific role of Xavi and Iniesta (  about their movement with and without the ball) ,but personally I watch many Barca's matches last year in which in certain match situation Xavi was spearheding his team.

I don't see here any contradiction with what I've said.

I think Iniesta possess more natural attacking mind than Xavi ,and that's why he places himself more attacking than Xavi. But that doesn't mean that the coach gives them different tactical instructions.

Using such kind of logic I could say that Toure is more defensive minded than Xavi, so he receives the same instructions. I cann't accept this. They are just different players and have different advantages, so any sensible manager will give them instructions which will use their advantages in best possible way.

From uefa.com match centre:

Inter - Barca




Barca - D.K.





In this match Iniesta played left winger/forward. Can you imagine Xavi playing on the flank? )


Barca - Rubin

[cagiva]

Yes,in certain matches last year Iniesta playerd left winger-forward/inside forward ( when Henry was not-available ). Iniesta possess more pace skills ( especally his immense agility ) than Xavi,and that's why he can fill that role. But like I said before - this is result more from specific match situation or certain match ,than overall tactical approach from Guardiola.

In fact Iniesta,like I said before,is more attacking naturally than Xavi,so we tends to dribble more,to go forward from deep more,and his great agility allows him to roam from his position more than Xavi does such as things. May be Guardiola gives him some specific instructions ( I don't know,I was never been in their change room ),but for me they have simillar,if not equal ,starting basic instructions and roles.

For the roles of Alves and Abidal I'm agree with you. Abidal is far more defensive-literate than Alves,and Barca,as whole,tends to attack more via right flank/right part of the pitch.

[dryg]

I can't really see that they have an equal start position. Xavi goes down in field picks up balls from the defence. Contribute much more as a playmaker then Iniesta. As someone wrote. Iniesta roams more from his positions and are in my eyes much more offensive then Xavi. When Iniesta is off Keita plays there mostly, he has a straighter gameplay then Iniesta but still the player that comes into the box from his position more then Xavi. Xavi sometime gets deeper then Toure just to pick up balls. Iniesta and Keita dont full fill this in my opinion.

[cagiva]

Position in one thing,player's role and duties - are other things.

If two players starts as MC and have equal roles and duties they will not acting simillarly. Everything depends of their skills and style of play ( which is mainly outlined by their PPMs). Xavi is better team player and with that in mind he tends to bring his teammates in,rather to go forward to wait a pass and finish the move. Iniesta is little bit selfish.
Like I said Iniesta possess better natural talent for the attacking moves than Xavi ,and that's why he tends to pop-up from second line more than him. That doesn't mean that Xavi not goes forward,or that Iniesta doesn't comes deeper. Everything depend of current match situation and in-game decisions.

[moj]

Position in one thing,player's role and duties - are other things.

If two players starts as MC and have equal roles and duties they will not acting simillarly. Everything depends of their skills and style of play ( which is mainly outlined by their PPMs). Xavi is better team player and with that in mind he tends to bring his teammates in,rather to go forward to wait a pass and finish the move. Iniesta is little bit selfish.
Like I said Iniesta possess better natural talent for the attacking moves than Xavi ,and that's why he tends to pop-up from second line more than him. That doesn't mean that Xavi not goes forward,or that Iniesta doesn't comes deeper. Everything depend of current match situation and in-game decisions.

Not too sure you can say Xavi is a better team-player or that Iniesta possesses more natural attacking talent then Xavi, both are great players, it's hard to make value judgements like that.

[Akontipus]

HI everybody. Differences between Xavi and Iniesta are simple Iniesta is more pacey guy and likes offensive, face to face dribblings. Xavi likes tatcical drb for hold up ball safety. He made more long (stretch zone) passes on wings.

About Barca tactics with WB. When play Abidal, Yaya (or different DMC) is more offensive minded, he little bit running forward and try more risk plays. I think Abidal is a FB not WB. He dont often run forward, make crosses and dribblings like for ex. Alves on other side or sometimes Maxwell. When is Abidal on the pitch perform role third defender. In Barca tactics always 3 players are defenders to hold any counter-attack. So when Maxwell and Alves playing we have two WB  and three guys to stop CA (2x DC & DMC).

Sorry for my english but I hope that everybody understand me Greetz

[Akontipus]

Ok maybe we will talk about new FM.

A preffered very simillar tactics but Messi is very off advanced playmaker, maxwell and alves are WB, and DMC is anchor man. I'm generally satisfaited with my start of the season (La liga 6 wins and 1 draw , CL 2 wins) but I've got problems with ball possesion. I preffered hard pressing and tackling everybody marking man except forwards and ST. I try closing down more offensive and danger players on the start of match. In progress I cheking who have most passing and runs and put on him pressing. F. ex. I had 65% ball possesion with valencia away and only 52% with saragossa and getafe. It's strange so maybe somebody have useful advice?? Greetz.

[Machete82]

Ok maybe we will talk about new FM.

A preffered very simillar tactics but Messi is very off advanced playmaker, maxwell and alves are WB, and DMC is anchor man. I'm generally satisfaited with my start of the season (La liga 6 wins and 1 draw , CL 2 wins) but I've got problems with ball possesion. I preffered hard pressing and tackling everybody marking man except forwards and ST. I try closing down more offensive and danger players on the start of match. In progress I cheking who have most passing and runs and put on him pressing. F. ex. I had 65% ball possesion with valencia away and only 52% with saragossa and getafe. It's strange so maybe somebody have useful advice?? Greetz.

Propably because the weaker sides rarely play the ball up and prefer to rotate it in their midfield/defense before trying to break your def with long balls. Valencia on the other hand prob plays more attacking and try to move the ball up. Try to close them down more aggressively across the field or use a control style strategy to break their defense

And the thing with Iniesta/Xavi, i agree that Iniesta is definately the more advanced one but still they both play the more or less the advanced PL role. So maybe tweak the forward runs/runs with ball for iniesta to max and leave Xavi`s to medium, have to try this myself in my Barca game.

[Akontipus]

So do You have high ball possesion?? Because I'm using control strategy often, pushing def line higher, hassle up the opponents and tight marking buts even Real Union plays with my guys like a pig in the middle. In last Copa del rey match I had 44% ball possesion!! Reserved squad: Pinto-Abidal,Milito,Chyghrynski,Puyol-Keita,Sergio B.,Edu Bedia,Suarez,Bojan, Henry. 77% succes passing and won 2-0. I can't understand this.

I agree with You, in my tactics Iniesta plays with often dribbling and FR.

[Michlos]

About Barca tactics with WB. When play Abidal, Yaya (or different DMC) is more offensive minded, he little bit running forward and try more risk plays. I think Abidal is a FB not WB. He dont often run forward, make crosses and dribblings like for ex. Alves on other side or sometimes Maxwell. When is Abidal on the pitch perform role third defender. In Barca tactics always 3 players are defenders to hold any counter-attack. So when Maxwell and Alves playing we have two WB  and three guys to stop CA (2x DC & DMC).

I fully agree that there is a difference between Alves and Abidal in that sense. Alves is much more prone to overlap Messi and make solo raids down the right side than Abidal is on his side of the pitch. Not sure about lifting the DMC though because Alves' raids usually leaves a gap on the right side. Usually this will be filled by the right DC but that leaves only one DC in the case of an overload in center.

[Akontipus]

Another question. I prefer man marking, maybe zonal marking will be better for high pressing. Enywhere, I try zonal, man, mixed marking and generally all this things dont give me high possesion.

[cagiva]

If you want your players to close down often the opponents,then set them with man+tight,as this will instruct your player to take care of player with the ball,not to stick to certain zone.

[Millie]

So do You have high ball possesion?? Because I'm using control strategy often, pushing def line higher, hassle up the opponents and tight marking buts even Real Union plays with my guys like a pig in the middle. In last Copa del rey match I had 44% ball possesion!! Reserved squad: Pinto-Abidal,Milito,Chyghrynski,Puyol-Keita,Sergio B.,Edu Bedia,Suarez,Bojan, Henry. 77% succes passing and won 2-0. I can't understand this.

I agree with You, in my tactics Iniesta plays with often dribbling and FR.

Well, there's a problem straight away. The control strategy is designed to be attacking, but patient, with low closing down, a deeper d-line and looser marking.

By using the shouts you do, you're saying - "I want you to play a controlling stategy - so, hang deeper, and let the opponents come out of their hole by closing down less. Oh, and by the way, I want you to push up and hassle the opponents more!"

It's contradictory. This might be a good thing to start with - change your strategy. Attacking strategies are inherently more aggressive with their d-line and closing down.

[Akontipus]

Ok I give up. Xerez away, win 3-0 and only 52% ball possesion. I completly don't have any ideas how to steal the ball in opponents area. I pushing more Iniesta and xavi to closing down opponents defenders and midfilders, all forward try steal the ball but it isn't working. I tried man marking with tigh marking, close down more passing players. I have one question. Does anybody have high bal possesion in 451/433 formation with most of matches??

[Machete82]

Ok I give up. Xerez away, win 3-0 and only 52% ball possesion. I completly don't have any ideas how to steal the ball in opponents area. I pushing more Iniesta and xavi to closing down opponents defenders and midfilders, all forward try steal the ball but it isn't working. I tried man marking with tigh marking, close down more passing players. I have one question. Does anybody have high bal possesion in 451/433 formation with most of matches??

Why are you so obsessed about possession if you are still winning comfortably? As i said earlier, holding high possession against weaker sides who only try to defend is going to be really hard. The weaker sides will try to hold on to the ball in midfield/their own half and only try to attack when the attack is definitely on. I really don't see the problem as long as you're creating chances and scoring goals.

[Akontipus]

Yea its good poitn. Thas my obsession form about FM 2007 Why?? Because Barca is may favourite team about 10 years and only this club got his own style of football. Keep ball, many passing, hard working in pressing. Thats why Im playing Barca. I want build tactic with high possesion, many passings and good closing down on whole pitch. I can't tha why my obsession. Otherwise, I thing in FM is impossible, because f.ex Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Ibra, Henry got low def skills (tackling, marking etc.) to make good pressing. Maybe that's problem why I cant steal the ball. Maybe players from Chelsea or Inter can dominate whole pitch because are generally tought guys and good def players on his positions (Essien, Lampard, Malouda, Drogba, Ballack, Mikel etc).

[Akontipus]

How about Wight?? In real life Barca in offense play wide style but in defence very narrow. Which of this strategies may be correct to good pressing??

[Millie]

There's two elements to keeping possession. You need to work out which of these you aren't doing well:

1) You need to have the ball.
2) You need to keep the ball.

That might sound simple, but so far you seem to have concentrated far more on pressing hard and marking tightly. That's excellent for gaining the ball, but it means that your players are very close together and close to the opposition when you get it. That makes it difficult to get a good passing game going.

It's all about finding a balance. Without seeing your side I can't tell, but I would assume if you're putting so much emphasis on the defensive side of winning the ball (i.e. tackling) you may be neglecting the attacking side (passing and movement).

[Akontipus]

Yes You have right. Im focus on the defensive side because I see that my pressing sucks ;] Offensive movements and passing looks nice but not great. Ok maybe I showing some settings.

GK - distributet ball to defender, short passing
WBs - high short passing, rare - t. ball, mixed - run f, rwb, crossing, mentality depends of strategy
DCs - short passes, rare everything, (one is stopper)
DMC - passing v. short, rare - long s,t balls, crossing,run with ball and f.r., mixed LS, hold up ball
MCs (adv PM)  - passing low mixed, mixed - LS, crossing for both
                     Iniesta - run with ball often, FR often, t balls mixed
                     Xavi - run with ball mixed, FR rare, t balls often
Fs (ins Fs) - passing mixed, FR and RWB always, mixed - crossing, t.balls, l. shots
ST (complete ST - attack)

Team settings:

Fluid
Attacking
More expressive
Shorter
Man mark
Press more
Hard tackling
More Roaming
Slow tempo
No counter attacks
D line push up
Target man; sometimes Ibra
Playmaker: Xavi or Iniesta
Usually Exploit the middle

Where's the mistake?? Could You help me??

[moj]

Ok I give up. Xerez away, win 3-0 and only 52% ball possesion. I completly don't have any ideas how to steal the ball in opponents area. I pushing more Iniesta and xavi to closing down opponents defenders and midfilders, all forward try steal the ball but it isn't working. I tried man marking with tigh marking, close down more passing players. I have one question. Does anybody have high bal possesion in 451/433 formation with most of matches??

Why are you so obsessed about possession if you are still winning comfortably? As i said earlier, holding high possession against weaker sides who only try to defend is going to be really hard. The weaker sides will try to hold on to the ball in midfield/their own half and only try to attack when the attack is definitely on. I really don't see the problem as long as you're creating chances and scoring goals.

Incorrect in real life with weaker sides against Barcelona. That's why he's so obsessed with possession.